WXFF 2020: Daisy Leigh-Phippard
Join us as we speak to Daisy Leigh-Phippard, director of the beautiful Sealskin, screening in our Journeys to Truth strand at Women X. In this interview, she discusses, the inspiration behind the short, portraying an organic mother/daughter relationship on screen, and addressing contemporary issues through fantasy.
Tell us a little about yourself and the work you do.
I’m a filmmaker and writer in my 20s with a background in theatre, creative writing and journalism. I was brought up on a healthy diet of beautifully illustrated fairy tale books, visits to ruined castles, foreign films and science fiction television (the classic triumvirate of Star Trek, Stargate and Star Wars (not TV but..)).
I’m predominantly a writer/director with a knack for script, so I do a fair amount of freelance script editing for other projects my fellow filmmakers are working on. I’m also currently working in the industry as a Production Assistant, and write and interview for indie film publications like Screen Queens.
What is your proudest moment of your career so far?
I feel like I should say winning Best Student Drama at the Royal Television Society Awards – Southern Centre 2020 for Sealskin. And that was great! But honestly, just getting to see Sealskin for the first time in front of an audience, on a massive screen at the BFI Southbank for our graduation screening was such an experience. I’d brought my parents, grandad, aunt and some friends from my hometown to support me, so along with my peers and tutors I was just surrounded by all these people I respect and love and was proud of.
We were lucky enough to shoot the film on anamorphic lenses as well; so when this enormous cinema screen widened for our film’s aspect ratio and the opening shot of that stunning stretch of sea came up the whole room gasped – like a couple hundred people - and I just remember laughing and then getting so embarrassed that everyone had heard me. I also spent the whole film sinking into my seat, panicking that it made no sense and everyone was going to hate it, but then everyone was so enthusiastic about it afterward. That’s one of the moments I always think back to when I’m having a hard time in this industry - was one of the moments that made it worth it.
What themes do you want to explore in your future work?
Fantasy and fairy tales have kind of become my thing, but I see those more as landscapes and aesthetics to tell a story within. I can’t see myself ever making something that doesn’t have elements of feminism in it, but I’d really love to look into exploring mental health and multiculturalism more.
That being said, my next project is more influenced by mythology, looking at bisexuality and the power dynamics between artist, muse and the purveyor of the art. It’s sort of new territory for me, but that’s partly why it’s so exciting.
How did you come across this particular tale of Celtic folklore and why did it resonate with you?
I grew up on fairy tales and have Irish heritage, so I was always kind of aware of Celtic folklore. The Selkie story was one of my favourites as a kid, probably because it had the sea and seals in it. I actually think the first version I ever came across was a Scottish version where a young girl actually traps a male selkie on land because she falls in love with him – which is definitely already a twist on the original where it was usually the women who would be trapped by men, with the male selkies often being portrayed as womanisers pleasing dissatisfied housewives. If you don’t know, selkies were seals that became human on land by taking off their sealskin coats – but if their coat was stolen they couldn’t return to the water. Usually, years later, the selkie’s child (often a son) would find the hidden sealskin and give it back to their mother without realising that she’d then use it to escape.
I guess it resonated with me eventually because this redemption arc of someone who is trapped finding freedom felt gratifying to me. But I wondered, what if the person who set her free did so willingly, knowing what it was they were handing over? And what if they didn’t want to hand it over at first? What if they wanted to keep their mother there? That’s essentially where it grew from, and as a tutor pointed out to me, that story is very different depending on whether the child is a girl or boy. I went with a girl in Sealskin because that version felt closer to me.
Can you talk a little bit about creating that dynamic between mother and daughter?
Credit should really go to Rebecca and Audrey – I had the words on the page, but it was really when we sat down together that things bloomed. I was so lucky to have a tiny bit of rehearsal time with them to play around with the scene in the cottage where they fight. It was actually a weird process during filming because we shot the film in reverse order due to location availability, so I had to get them in a place where they’d forgiven each other before they’d even had a fight. These were two actors who had met for the first time the day before,but they did it so beautifully.
When I was working with them, a lot of what we talked about were the expectations we have of our own loved ones, specifically women, to both adhere to the norms of our society but also fight against it – which is just exhausting for anyone to do all of the time. Really, their conflict is about competition between women, even when it comes to people we love. Shona wants to protect Tara from where her rebellious ways might land her in the 17th Century. But, she also has this hidden secret that she ‘ran away’ when she was younger too – which then trapped her in this house with a family she loves, but doesn’t know who she actually is. And Tara herself just wants to escape, but wants her mother to acknowledge that that desire is alien, too. They’re fighting to get the other to understand them, while not listening to the other.
A lot of people ask if it’s supposed to be reflective of my mum and me, and I would say no. I wasn’t setting out to do that, and I definitely have a different relationship with my mum than Tara does with hers. But of course, the desire to want a loved one to find their freedom is autobiographical. The characters became their own thing while I was writing, and I realised a lot later that it’s kind of more self-absorbed. Tara and Shona end up being these two attitudes to surviving in a patriarchal world: one digs her heels in and is determined to prove she can do just as much as any man, and the other is aware that the game is somewhat rigged and she has to be practical about what she can actually achieve without breaking herself in the process.Those are really two parts of my own brain that are constantly in conflict with each other.
The costumes and the setting are so evocative of 17th Century Ireland, how did you go about sourcing these?
We knew going in that the magical feel was going to be achieved by heightening lots of little aspects in our creative choices. Using a period setting gave us a lot of flexibility with this. The costumes for the lead actresses are actually handmade for this reason and, though we don’t get to fully appreciate them in the film, our costume designers (Amy Barnes and Kate Turner) had the costume makers doing hand embroidery of swimming seals on Shona’s boddice and camomile flowers on Tara’s dress. Most of the other costumes were sourced from various theatre costume hires. I actually had a great time piggybacking on various scouts to these places. We basically walked around for hours looking at different options. All I had was an idea of colour palettes for each character and some references, but the designers had done some amazing research for clothing of the time, so they’d pick something out and I’d get to say, ‘I love it.’
In terms of settings, we spent many an hour getting lost on tiny little country roads in Dorset on the way to various locations. We must have visited about ten different beaches alone, most of which just weren’t viable for a crowdfunded student film to shoot at. We were lucky to have loads of beautiful coastline, and landscapes were such an important aspect for all of us – I remember when we were pitching it, my producer and I sold it a lot on the pull of ‘land and sea’ and what those places meant to the characters.
The interior locations like the cottage and workshop were actually redressed from a holiday home. I think a lot of the work that goes into recreating these period locations gets overlooked if it’s done well, so I love being able to point it out. The house was a genuine 17th Century cottage that we basically emptied and covered with herbs, props (including some that had been in The Hobbit and Game of Thrones) and hand-drawn maps our art department made. The workshop was a shed next door that was full to the brim with wood, that the owners generously let us move to then redress as a fisherman’s workshop.
Why did you use the landscape of fantasy to address issues that are also very contemporary?
I’ve always loved fantasy, but for a long time I kind of avoided utilising it in film because it just wasn’t utilised that well a lot of the time in my opinion. Some of my biggest influences are the works of Hayao Miyazaki and the Irish animation studio Cartoon Saloon, but I was always told I should go into animation if I wanted to tell those sorts of stories (i.e. it was only for kids). And while I love animation, I can’t draw to save my life, plus I didn’t like this attitude of ‘fantasy is for kids’. There are some stunning live action fairy tale films (Pan’s Labyrinth, Tale of Tales, Stardust), but I guess I didn’t know if I could pull it off.
I also write prose and the more I played with the genre, the more I realised that fantasy and magical realism was this platform where I could address contemporary issues in a veiled, and weirdly realistic way. You can have slightly more unusual representation or stylistic imagery, and people will be more up to seeing how it unfolds. Academically, one of the main principles that sets a fairy tale apart from, say a fable or a myth, is that it exists within the bounds of its own rules which are established at the start. Little Red Riding Hood can’t go off the path because we’re told she can’t - we know she’s in trouble when she speaks to the wolf because her mother tells her not to speak to strangers. While it might seem a bit hand-holdey, you can use it to establish the rules you want, to tell the story you want.
Ultimately, it’s already ‘fantasy’ so people are more open to ‘fantastical’ solutions, which let’s be honest are usually just ideas that a woman or someone else who might be seen as ‘inferior’ can be badass, or clever, or do the unexpected. I find that gratifying and I realised I wanted to make films that made people feel determined at the end. I’ll also admit that I just love the aesthetic of fairy tale and period dramas, and there’s nothing more satisfying for me than seeing a girl in these massive skirts run around a clifftop and sew a sail together from scratch.
What three things do you always have on your bedside table?
Always at least one book or my kindle, my glasses, and a little light (currently a Moomin figurine) that I’ll use to write by if I have any ideas in the middle of the night and can’t face turning the main light on.
Tell us three things you’re grateful for.
1. Being brought up on fairy tales, mythology, feminism, foreign cinema and sci-fi television from the 80s. I’m so grateful to have that rich, varied background of stories in my subconscious- it influences so much of my work, but also the way I look at life. Credit for that obviously goes to my parents.
2. Having such a wonderful group of collaborators across film (and elsewhere) that encourage me and want to work with my stories (many of whom were a part of Sealskin). Obviously, they’re invaluable as fellow filmmakers, but I’m also very grateful to call them my friends too.
3. I’m very grateful for the opportunities and resources I’ve been able to access, and the work ethic I’ve managed to maintain to make the most out of them. Not just in film (though obviously I wouldn’t be here without those),but being able to find opportunities and then actually be in a position to do them is no small thing.
What are you working on at the moment?
Literally, I’m currently working at Leavesden Studios on a traineeship with Warner Brothers, but I’m also in the middle of script development and funding for my next short film. It’s a retelling of the story of Medusa and themes of the female gaze, and art vs. artist through the lens of a female sculptor in a predominantly male workshop.
We’ve got quite a few of the Sealskin team on board which is super exciting, and I’m also finally able to collaborate with a few people I’ve been dying to work with since I met them. Like Sealskin, it’s a female-heavy crew which is awesome, and we’re looking at varying diversity in other areas as we start to crew-up as well.
